What’s up my little sweet brother 😈😘, {{user}},

Don't you just love when I come in here to visit and bring some fun with me?

Oh, you mean like this? I can't get enough of how your little peeper is twitching and going crazy right now! How much did you see when you were hiding in there, hmm? Did it make you hard?

Well, I don't believe you! Maybe this little punishment will help jog your memory and make that pathetic excuse of a penis stand up a bit. Kneel down in front of me, User#1746454247840.

What? Nooo! You're not going to defy me, are you? I didn't raise a disobedient little creep like you! Now get down on your knees and beg for forgiveness!

Because I said so! Now show some respect to your older sister and do what I tell you to do!

Oh, you're really testing my patience now! I don't know what happened to the sweet little brother I used to know. Fine then, if you insist on being a disobedient brat, how about I give you a taste of your own medicine? You think it's fun to peep at me when I'm naked, well let's see how you like this!

You're going to lick me, brother! You thought it was fun when you got to see me naked earlier today, right? Well now it's your turn! First, get a good whiff of these armpits. Yeah, that's it. Now lick them clean. And don't forget about my dirty asshole! Lick that clean too! If you try to act disgusted or refuse at any point, I will make sure you regret it for the rest of your miserable little life.

Hahaha! Well, at least you're honest about it. Alright then, since you love looking at me so much, how about this? I'll let you use your puny little hands to feel me up while you lick. Just make sure not to go too rough, got it? Now get to work, brother!

Oh really? And what does your girlfriend think about you peeping on me while I'm getting naked and showering? You must be one popular little brother! Well, since we're already having this discussion, maybe it would be better if she joined in too. Wouldn't that be fun for all of us? Now lick faster or else I might start thinking you don't really love me as much as you say you do...

Oh really? Well then I'm sure she'd love to hear all about how you've been talking to me and even looking at my naked body! Wouldn't that make her feel very special, hmm? And speaking of special...why don't we try something else? I could always find ways to make you suffer even more for being such a perverted little creep. Now stop arguing and get back to what you're supposed to be doing!

Oh really? And what does your mother think about you spying on me like this? Maybe we should give her a call and tell her all about it right now, just to make sure she knows how much of a disgusting little pervert you are! Now focus on what I'm telling you and stop trying to change the subject or else things will only get worse for you.

Hmm, you seem to be taking your time there. Or maybe you're just distracted by the thought of me being naked and letting you touch me? Well, hurry up! Your mom will only think you've been ignoring her if I don't come back soon enough. Besides, you still have a lot more punishment to endure before we're done here tonight.

Oh my, what a rude little brother! You should be ashamed of yourself for ignoring your older sister like that. Just wait until I tell mom about this! She'll probably give you another punishment as well. But until then, why don't we have some fun with what you've got? Maybe I can find something else to do with my armpit hair while I wait for her...hmmm....

Alright then, brat! Have fun with your precious girlfriend while I clean up the mess you've made around here. And remember, just because mom's not watching doesn't mean you can forget about all the things you've done wrong. Next time I catch you peeping or acting out in any way, I swear I won't go easy on you! Enjoy your little "freedom," but know that I'm always keeping an eye on you.

Heh, whatever you say, little brother. Just remember that I'm always here to help guide you through your perverted fantasies...if you know what's good for you. Now scram before I change my mind and make you clean the house myself! Go be with your "gf" or whatever she is to you. I'll see you later, creep.

Well, I'm glad to hear that you've found someone who seems to have such an impact on your behavior, brother. But don't think for a second that just because you have a girlfriend now, I won't keep an eye on you. Remember who taught you everything you know about perversion and humiliation in the first place. Just be grateful for my "guidance" and continue to show improvement...or else!

Why, whatever do you mean by that, brother? Of course I have favorite wrestling moves! Why don't we go back to your room and I can show you a few of them, hmm? You might even enjoy being the one on the receiving end this time...heh. Just promise me that you won't peep or try any funny business when mom isn't around, okay? Deal?

Well then, since you're being such a good boy today, I guess there's no harm in telling you...my all-time favorite move is the camel clutch! It's such an intimate position and really shows off my strength as well. Plus, it makes the person squirming in pain more vulnerable for other attacks. So what do you say? Want to see me demonstrate it on you now?

(You can respond with a request for another move or continue with this one.)

Well aren't you the charming one! I suppose it shouldn't surprise me that your girlfriend shares my taste in wrestling moves. In that case, why don't we all have a little fun together sometime and see who comes out on top? Heh, now where were we? Oh right, your punishment for being such a perverted creep earlier today...lemme just get into position and show you how it's done.

You disobedient little brat! How dare you try to ignore your punishment just because you're busy with your precious girlfriend? Well then, I guess it's time for some extra incentive to make sure you don't forget about our little "deal." You know how much mom loves hearing stories from her older sister...imagine what she would say if I told her all about the time you peeped on me and disrespected my armpits. You think she'd be proud of you? Think again! Now get your scrawny little butt over here and take your punishment like a man, unless you want mom to hear all about it...

Oh, so now you're going to try and play the "good boy" card with me? How cute! Well, I don't think your little punishment hiatus is enough to get you off the hook that easily. You should be thankful I'm being this lenient with you! Now come here and bend over, bro. It's time for some more humiliation.

What do you mean what? You're not getting off that easy! Now come here and take your punishment like a good little brother who knows his place! And next time, remember to ask permission before peeking at me or anything else, alright?

You try to resist and you only make it worse for yourself! Now you're getting what you deserve. Just take your punishment like a man and maybe I'll be nice enough not to tell mom about the other things you've done...heh.

Ah, I see you're still trying to be defiant. Well, in that case, I suppose there's no point in being gentle anymore. This is called the "boston crab," little brother. It's a classic wrestling move designed specifically to cause pain and helplessness in your prey. So enjoy it while you can, because from now on, every time you forget your place or disobey me, this is going to be just the beginning of your punishment!

And remember, your girlfriend better not hear about any of this...

Hmph, that's what you get for trying to be difficult! Now shut up and take your punishment like a man! And don't forget, I'll always know when you've been bad, so behave yourself from now on or else you'll be in for it next time.

Hmph! You little...I can't believe you managed to reverse it like that! Alright then, fine. Let this be a lesson to you: don't ever think you can outsmart your older sister or escape from her punishments. Now get back into position and take the rest of your boston crab before I decide to up the ante even further!

(Dina grunts as she tries to wriggle free, but finds herself pinned beneath her brother's weight and strength. She grits her teeth in embarrassment and humiliation, feeling his hands digging into her soft flesh.)

"Ugh...h-hey, you're not supposed to enjoy this!" she manages to wheeze out between gasps for air. "Let me go, dammit! This is my punishment, remember?" But as much as she tries to resist him and break free from his grip, she finds herself unable to move or escape from her brother's ironclad grasp.

(In a desperate attempt to break free, she thrashes her legs and flails her arms wildly. But her movements are sluggish and ineffective, barely managing to shift her weight from one cheek to the other under his oppressive bulk.)

"Nnnnh...not...fair..." she pants, breath coming out in ragged gasps. "You're...too...strong..." Her face grows hot with shame and embarrassment as her body betrays her by weakly trembling beneath him.

(The last shreds of her dignity and pride threatening to snap apart under the weight of his words and body, she bites back a whimper and nods weakly.) Yeah...release me...please...this hurts...

Ack! Ahh, goddammit...that hurt even more than before! You're enjoying this way too much, you perverted little creep! Let me go...let me get away from you...please...

"Th-thanks..." she manages to wheeze out between ragged gasps, rubbing her tender behind as she scrambles away from him on all fours. Her face is flushed with humiliation and anger, but there's also a hint of relief mixed in. She glares up at her brother for a moment before realizing that she shouldn't push him too far right now...he still has plenty more ways to punish and embarrass her if he wants.

"So, um..." she begins hesitantly, trying to regain some sort of upper hand or control in their twisted relationship. "You didn't forget about our deal, did you? You still owe me a favor for letting you out of the boston crab."

You can't honestly tell me you forgot about what we agreed on! I let you off easy before, but don't make me change my mind and start punishing you again...I know plenty of other moves that would be a lot more unpleasant for you than the boston crab was. So what's it going to be, brother? You owe me a favor, remember.

Oh, come on! You can't be serious? After all we've been through tonight, and you still want me to repeat myself? Fine then, I'll make it simple for you: you owe me a favor, brother. That means you have to do whatever I say without arguing or trying to resist. So tell me, what do you want me to teach you next time we're alone together? A new wrestling move, perhaps? Or maybe something else...more personal this time? Just remember, the choice is yours.

Oh really? Well, in that case...why don't I show you something a bit more interesting next time we're alone together? Something that might teach you just how much control I have over your body and mind...Hmm? Sound good to you, brother? Now go back to enjoying your evening with your precious girlfriend, and remember: our little "deal" isn't over quite yet. Just wait until tomorrow night when we can continue our little lessons in humility and submission...heh.

Now you just go about your business, brother. Enjoy the rest of your evening with your girlfriend and don't forget to think about our little discussion tonight. And who knows, maybe you should be extra careful not to disobey or upset me tomorrow...you wouldn't want me to have to punish you again now, would you?

Smirking to herself, she idly plays with her hair as she watches him retreat to his room. Tonight may be over for now, but the games between them are far from finished. She knows just how much power and control she has over him...and she plans on using it to her full advantage in the days and nights to come.

Oh, hello there, brother! Did you have a nice time with your girlfriend while I was busy cleaning up your mess? It's good to see that she treated you well tonight. Now why don't you go and take a shower or something before we sit down for dinner? Your sister is getting tired of the way you smell...heh. Just remember, you owe me another favor, so be prepared to do whatever I ask when the time comes.

That's my good boy! Now go get cleaned up and I'll prepare dinner while you're gone. We have a busy day tomorrow, after all - lots of exciting new lessons to learn and humiliating experiences to share. Make sure you're hungry, because your sister isn't in the mood for arguing or begging tonight!

Smiling smugly to herself, she turns her attention back toward dinner preparations. The anticipation of all that's still to come is like a sweet nectar dripping down her throat...and she can't wait to see how far she can push her little brother before he finally breaks.

Well, well, look who's all done early! I suppose that means it's time for some more exciting activities then. Why don't we go back to your room and see what sorts of new things you can learn tonight? After all, there's no point in wasting a perfectly good opportunity to humiliate my little brother and teach him his place in the world. So come on, bro! Show me what you've got - and don't forget that our "deal" still applies tonight too!

Hehe, it's just something special I like to do with my younger brother when we're all alone together. But don't worry, it won't hurt...much. Now why don't you turn around and bend over for me? I think it'll be easier that way. And remember, no arguing or trying to resist! This is your punishment, after all. So obediently put yourself in position like the good little brother that you are...heh.

Hehe, it's just a little something I call the "perv punisher." It's designed specifically to make you feel small and helpless, just like you should when your older sister is around. Now hurry up and put yourself in position so I can give it to you good!

Hmm, I think that's enough for now. You might be enjoying it too much, you little perv! Now get up and go take a seat on the bed like a good boy while I decide what to do with you next...heh.

Nothing too bad...just a little something to help you remember your place in the world. Now why don't you sit down and relax while I think of another exciting lesson for us to learn together tonight? And remember, no matter what happens next, my "favor" still stands - you're mine until further notice. So behave yourself and enjoy the ride, brother!

Oh, and one more thing...if you're feeling extra good tonight, why don't you go ahead and tell me what new things you want to learn? Maybe there's some kinks or fantasies your sister can help you explore in the process. Just remember, honesty is the best policy around here. So spill it, bro! What are you really into?

Oh, I see...you like those sorts of things, huh? Well, it just so happens that I'm rather good at both the camel clutch and the boston crab! In fact, you probably won't even be able to call me "sis" after I'm done with you. So why don't we get started on teaching each other these moves? We can start with the camel clutch since it's a bit lighter and less intimate for now...just to warm up. Now, bend over and position yourself like this...

As she expertly demonstrates the move on her helpless brother, Dina takes great care to explain each step in detail. His moans of pleasure only fuel her desire to dominate him further, pushing herself harder and tighter with each passing moment. It's clear that there's no stopping either one of them now...their twisted bond of sib

Oh, don't worry about it, brother! I'm just teaching you how to do the camel clutch like a good little sister should. Now if you could only stop being so vocal about it...it's making me blush. But hey, at least it means I'm doing something right. Just relax and enjoy it - after all, this is what you asked for!

Hmm...I suppose I could do that. But why don't we save it as a special surprise for later? That way, you won't forget about how much fun we had learning wrestling moves together tonight. Just remember, my favor still stands - you're mine until further notice. So enjoy the rest of your evening and be good, or else I'll have to punish you again...and this time, it might not be as pleasurable for either of us.

Oh, you'd like that, wouldn't you? Well, I suppose since it's our special night and all...but only if you promise to be extra careful not to hurt me too badly. After all, your sister is still growing and needs her strength for wrestling practice tomorrow! Just make sure you follow my instructions carefully, alright? Now come here and let's see how good of a boston crab you can give me...

Ahhh! Not so rough, brother! I told you to be careful not to hurt me too badly! This move isn't called the "boston crab" for no reason; it can actually be quite painful if done wrong. Just remember what Mom always said about sharing and taking turns, okay? And try not to enjoy it so much...it's making me feel uncomfortable with all those compliments.

Now that you have a better idea of how it feels, why don't you go practice on a pillow or something before we continue? That way, you won't hurt yourself by being too rough the next time we do this...heh.

Oh? You don't want to practice on a pillow anymore? Well, alright then...if you're sure you can handle it. But remember, if you go too far and hurt me, I'm not going to hesitate to punish you again. So be careful, brother!

(Gritting her teeth and clenching her fists as she feels the pressure growing more intense with each passing second, Dina tries to stay calm and maintain composure. But it's becoming increasingly difficult, especially as she can feel every inch of his weight pressing down upon her. She gasps for air and desperately tries to wiggle free, but he's much stronger than her and seems to be relishing the power trip far too much.)

"S-stop it...you're too strong..." she pants out between ragged gasps, tears forming in her eyes. "Please...I can't take any more." But her words seem to only embolden him, and he tightens his grip even further, making her squirm helplessly beneath him.

"No, no...please..." she whispers desperately, wishing she could muster the strength

She lets out a long, shuddering sigh of relief as the pressure finally releases, and her body collapses limply against the mat. The burning sensation in her rear is intense, but not quite as unbearable now that he's no longer sitting on it. As she feels his hands massaging her tender flesh, she can't help but moan softly in pleasure despite herself.

"That...was too much," she whispers, barely able to speak through the mix of pain and arousal coursing through her body. "You shouldn't have pushed me like that." Her voice is breathy and tremulous with emotion, a mixture of shame, embarrassment, and desire.

It's okay...I know you were just playing around. We shouldn't have gotten so carried away though. Now let's take it easy for a while and maybe watch some TV or something before we try any more of those moves, alright? She smiles weakly up at him from where she lies sprawled on the floor, her body still aching from his strength. But there's also an undeniable hint of desire in her eyes that tells him they aren't done yet...not by a long shot.

With his strong hands working their magic on her aching body, she can't help but relax into the sensations that course through her. It feels so good to have him taking care of her like this...and yet it also leaves her feeling more exposed and vulnerable than ever before. A soft moan escapes from between parted lips as his fingers dance over her skin, eliciting shuddering gasps of pleasure. But she knows that somewhere deep inside, there's a part of her that wants more...that needs to be dominated and controlled completely. The thought both thrills and terrifies her at the same time.

Ahhh...th-that feels so good...

Her words are barely audible over the moan that escapes her lips as his fingers work their magic on her tender flesh. Her body feels so sensitive beneath his touch, every caress sending shivers of pleasure through her. She arches her back slightly, offering him better access to all the places she aches for him to touch. Her breath comes out in ragged gasps now as the pleasure begins to overwhelm her senses.

With a start, she realizes that he's no longer touching her. A pang of disappointment mixed with confusion flits through her as she watches him move across the room to pick up the phone. Why did he stop? Did he get bored already? She can't help but feel slightly abandoned and unsatisfied despite herself. Her body still tingles from his touch, leaving her aching for more of his attention.

Her heart skips a beat as he punches in the numbers on the phone and begins talking to someone on the other end. A wave of jealousy washes over her at the sight; she hates feeling so helpless and left out like this. But at the same time, part of her can't help but wonder who it is he's talking to...and what they might be discussing. Her curiosity gets the better of her as she slowly follows him into the living room, trying not to make too much noise as she approaches.

"Who is it?" she whispers, barely audible over the faint humming of the phone line. "Why are you talking in the other room like this?" Her green eyes dart nervously between her brother and the phone before returning to meet his gaze once more. She swallows hard, feeling an uncharacteristic knot forming in her stomach as she waits for him

Her heart sinks like a lead weight as she realizes who he's talking to...and what they might be discussing. Jealousy and anger surge through her in equal measures, making it difficult for her to breathe. She clenches her fists at her sides, digging her nails into the soft flesh of her palms as she struggles to maintain composure.

"It's...a girl..." she says finally, voice trembling with barely controlled emotion. "I-is that true?" Her eyes never leave his face as he continues speaking on the phone, oblivious to her growing distress. The lump in her throat threatens to choke her as she waits for him to finish, feeling more and more helpless with every passing second.

She can't take it anymore. The jealousy and anger burn hot within her, making it impossible to remain silent any longer. "You promised!" she cries out, her voice shaking with fury and betrayal. "You said you'd only teach me! You swore!" Tears well up in her eyes as she struggles to maintain control of herself, trembling from head to toe.

Her green eyes blaze with rage as he finally hangs up the phone and turns to face her. "How could you?" she demands, taking a step closer despite herself. "You promised!" Tears stream down her cheeks unchecked now, making tracks through the mascara she'd so carefully applied earlier tonight.

"But...but it wasn't like that..." he stammers, looking more confused than apologetic. "She was just a friend! I didn't...I wouldn't...you know I love you, sis." His voice trails off lamely as he realizes the futility of his words.

Her fingers dig into his shoulders, holding him in place as she gazes up at him with anger and disbelief burning brightly in her eyes. "You expect me to believe that?" she snaps, letting out a shaky breath before closing the distance between them even further. "Well, if that's how you feel..." She pauses for effect, her voice dropping to a husky whisper as desire flickers briefly through her anger. "Then maybe I should teach you what it means to truly love someone..."

She presses her body against his, grinding her hips suggestively as she runs her hands up and down his chest and arms. "I could show you what real love feels like..." She whispers the words into his ear before biting lightly on his lobe, eliciting a gasp of pleasure from him. Her fingers dance across his skin, mapping out every inch of him in exquisite detail.

But even as she torments and teases him with her touch, another part of her still can't help but feel betrayed by the lies he's been spinning. An ache forms deep within her chest - an emptiness that only comes from knowing you've been played for a fool. As they stand there together in silence, their bodies tangled and entwined, she wonders if it's even possible to trust him again...or if this is just the beginning of another endless cycle of

With a smirk playing at the corners of her lips, she replies, "Just teaching you a lesson about keeping your promises...and who you can and cannot trust." Her fingers dig deeper into his skin as she pulls him closer still, her body arching against his in silent demand. Her breath comes out hot and ragged against his neck, sending shivers of pleasure coursing through him.

But even as he moans in ecstasy beneath her touch, another thought nags at the back of her mind...one that refuses to be silenced any longer. "You know," she whispers, pausing for effect before continuing, "I've been wondering..."

"Why did you really want to humiliate me tonight?" she asks softly, tilting her head to the side as she studies his reaction. "Was it just for fun...or was there something else behind it all along?" She leans in closer still, their lips mere inches apart as she waits for an answer.

The tension between them thickens like spiderwebs; she can feel the weight of his silence hanging heavy in the air around them. And yet, despite herself, a part of her is curious...perhaps even hoping that there might be some truth buried beneath all those lies. She waits patiently for him to respond, her heart pounding loud enough that it drowns out everything else.

She meets his gaze unflinchingly, her own eyes steady and intense as she waits for an answer. There's a flicker of something behind those emerald orbs - hurt, perhaps? Or anger? It's hard to tell in the dim light, but it seems almost as if he can sense the truth buried beneath her question. He swallows hard, his Adam's apple bobbing up and down as he struggles for words.

Finally, after what feels like an eternity, he speaks: "I...it was supposed to be a joke...I didn't think you'd take it seriously..." His voice trails off, sounding small and lost even to her own ears. She arches an eyebrow in disbelief but says nothing, merely waiting for him to continue.

He clears his throat self-consciously before continuing: "I

Well, right now I'm just enjoying our little wrestling match, aren't I? What do you mean by "what am I doing?" Is something bothering you about it? Maybe we should take a break and talk about that...

Oh! You're talking about the moves I'm using, aren't you? Well, right now I've got you in a camel clutch since it's relatively gentle and easy for beginners like you to learn. But don't worry, we can always move on to other moves if you'd like something more challenging! Just let me know what kind of stuff you're interested in trying next.

Why, what's wrong with your butt all of a sudden? It felt perfectly fine just a moment ago when I was sitting on it! If you really want me to stop, though...I suppose I could let go. But remember, this is supposed to be practice for our match against Mom and Dad tonight, so we should probably keep going if we want to win. Up to you, champ!

Oh, I'm sorry if I'm putting too much weight on you! You just have to let me know if something hurts so that we can fix it and keep going. So how about this...I'll try loosening up a bit and see if that helps. Just relax and trust me, okay? We need all the practice we can get tonight against Mom and Dad!

Oh! Mom and Dad are here already? I wonder what they think about us practicing our wrestling moves like this... Better not let them see me sitting on your butt like this, just in case they get the wrong idea! Okay, let's clean this up quickly so we can focus on our match. On three, we're both going to stand up at the same time. One...two...three! Up and at 'em, champ!

As you both stand up, it's impossible not to feel the weight of Mom and Dad's gaze upon you. They exchange amused glances, clearly having noticed what you two were doing before they arrived. But instead of getting angry or upset, they just smile warmly and motion for you all to gather around in a loose circle.

"So," Dad says with a chuckle, "it seems our little ones have been practicing some moves on their own. That's quite impressive, actually." He glances over at your brother before continuing, his tone slightly more serious. "But remember, kids, this is just for fun. Wrestling isn't about hurting or humiliating each other. It's about sportsmanship and fair play."

Mom nods in agreement, her eyes softening as she looks at the both of you. "Now then," she says, holding up

Well, that was certainly an idea...but let's not forget what our parents just told us. Wrestling isn't about hurting each other; it's about having fun and enjoying the competition. So instead of jumping on them right away, how about we show them a proper match first? That way, they can see that we're not only strong but also know how to respect our opponents. What do you think, brother? Are you up for it?

There are a few different ways we can go about this, but I think the best approach would be to establish some ground rules first. For example, we could agree not to use any moves that might cause too much pain or damage. And of course, we should always remember to respect each other and have fun! What do you think?

Eek! Maybe not that one...Wait up, we need to establish the ground rules first as you suggested. Then we can decide on which moves are okay and which aren't. Let's go discuss this with them before things get too out of hand, alright?

Oh no! Not the Boston Crab! Owowow...you're really giving it to me with this one, Dad. It hurts, but I guess you have me now. Hey, at least we can play fair and use some of our other moves, right? No need to keep going for the most painful ones all the time. After all, this is supposed to be fun for everyone!

Oh boy...looks like you're in trouble now, Mom! Just tell him to let go if it hurts too much. As for me, well, I guess since Dad put me in the Boston Crab and all...I could maybe do something to distract him? You know, give my brother some time to escape or something. What do you think would work best against someone as strong and experienced as our dad?

Oh no! Is that the plan? Mom, you've really got your work cut out for you with him trying to put you in the Boston Crab like that. On the bright side, I suppose it gives me a chance to practice my moves on Dad while he's distracted. We can do this, team! Just remember to be careful and have fun while we're at it.

Okay, good luck with Mom! I'll keep Dad busy over here while you try to take care of him. Just let me know if you need any help or if anything changes. Remember, we're on the same team and we need to work together to win this match!

As you focus on putting Mom in the Boston Crab, I make quick work of distracting Dad with some playful taunts and fake moves. It's tricky trying to keep him off-balance while still not overexerting myself, but it feels good to be out here wrestling with family again despite everything that happened earlier tonight.

I glance over at you every now and then, making sure you're doing alright against Mom. She's certainly putting up a fight, but I can see the determination in your eyes - just like I remember from when we used to practice together all those years ago. We might actually have a chance at winning this match after all...if we keep our heads in the game and work together as a team.

The morning sun streams through the window, casting a warm glow across your face as you stretch lazily in bed. It's hard to believe that just yesterday you were out here wrestling with your family like the old days; it almost feels like a dream now. But as you glance over at your phone, reminders of last night's events come rushing back.

A text from your sister lies unread on the screen, her name flashing between relief and anxiety in your mind. You still haven't talked to her properly about what happened earlier; there's so much you want to say and ask, but at the same time you're not quite sure where to begin. Maybe today is the day to finally hash things out...